Curse

Winterclaw · Jun 27, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

One thing that disappoints me as someone who plays RPGs is that your character, the hero, always needs to fight some collosal villian in games it seems. Take the GW series. The first game you fought a lich which was intent on the prophecies thing. Not too bad as far as games go. The next game, you've got the vengeful spirit of shiro and his undead army... that's starting to push it. In NF and the upcoming GWEN, you've got to fight some self-style gods or whatever and I have to ask myself if that's really necessary.

Take factions. It would have been just as good as a storyline if the villian was a rogue general that was decended from Shiro and wanted to reclaim his family's honor. Or NF, if you left out the whole abadon part it'd still be an interesting story. And in the upcoming GWEN if the destroyer was just a powerful dragon or beholder or something, it could still be an interesting story.

I guess my point is that as an RPGer, I'm getting sick of all the stories where you have to save the world. Whatever happened to saving the kingdom from an evil witch, or the princess from a dragon, or bring order to a lawless kingdom, or even try to bring peace to two houses that have fueded for generations (what Factions could have done but failed miserably at). Even something as simple as saving a group of villagers from the bandits(monsters) that have been terrorizing them (7 samurai/kung fu hustle) would be a playable game as well.

What do you all think about games seemingly needing to introduce more and more outlandish scenerios? I really hope that in GW2, things are a little more simple. To be perfectly honest, I think game makers are trying to create exaggerated scenerios in part to one up each other and in part because they are overlooking the fact that you can have good games without needing to save the entire world. And it's begining to bore me.

Omniclasm · Jun 27, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

I just kill stuff, the story is irrelevant the 2nd, 3rd, 4th.....10th time through the game. Atleast outlandish things might give them a chance to make interesting landscapes. I quite liked the Realm of Torment, and the outside edges of the Desolation.

Series · Jun 27, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

I find it interesting that the lich is probably the most difficult to kill and requires the most strategy, while Shiro and Abaddon are just... push overs. And Abaddon is a god! I mean seriously, when I equipped some random henchies to get a feel for the abaddon mission, beat it on my first try, I couldn't help but say "...that's it?"

Spazzer · Jun 27, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

It worked for Dragonball Z. Why not Guild Wars?

Omniclasm · Jun 27, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

I find it interesting that the lich is probably the most difficult to kill and requires the most strategy, while Shiro and Abaddon are just... push overs. And Abaddon is a god! I mean seriously, when I equipped some random henchies to get a feel for the abaddon mission, beat it on my first try, I couldn't help but say "...that's it?"

I find Shiro to be the hardest, maybe it's just my play-style. Abaddon and the Lich are fairly easy. Hardest part about the Lich is having PuG warriors with healing hands blocking him off the bloodstone. Abaddon can be killed with master's reward by a team of 4, not much else to be said about that really.

Series · Jun 27, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

I find Shiro to be the hardest, maybe it's just my play-style. Abaddon and the Lich are fairly easy. Hardest part about the Lich is having PuG warriors with healing hands blocking him off the bloodstone. Abaddon can be killed with master's reward by a team of 4, not much else to be said about that really.

Yeah, I guess Shiro and Lich are just about playstyle, but Abaddon is just about trying not to laugh too hard.

bilateralrope · Jun 27, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

I just kill stuff, the story is irrelevant the 2nd, 3rd, 4th.....10th time through the game. Atleast outlandish things might give them a chance to make interesting landscapes. I quite liked the Realm of Torment, and the outside edges of the Desolation.

Thing is they didn't need a god to require the Realm of Torment, just a powerful demon lord that we need to kill, forcing us to go into their realm because it won't come out.

Shiro wasn't too bad, except for being an idiot (lets become mortal before dealing with the forces of light, despite being able to make afflicted). The Lich did at least outsmart our characters (not that this says much).

Omniclasm · Jun 27, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Thing is they didn't need a god to require the Realm of Torment, just a powerful demon lord that we need to kill, forcing us to go into their realm because it won't come out.

Shiro wasn't too bad, except for being an idiot (lets become mortal before dealing with the forces of light, despite being able to make afflicted). The Lich did at least outsmart our characters (not that this says much).

I never really understood that either, why become mortal again so that you can be killed? Seemed like he was doing a pretty good job of wrecking havoc among Cantha without being mortal.

1 up and 2 down · Jun 27, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Shiro wasn't too bad, except for being an idiot (lets become mortal before dealing with the forces of light, despite being able to make afflicted). The Lich did at least outsmart our characters (not that this says much).

Quoted for truth!

But anet had to make shiro be dumb and become mortal because other wise we wouldn't have been able to beat factions.

Winterclaw · Jun 27, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

It worked for Dragonball Z. Why not Guild Wars?

Cause not all of use are 12-16 year old males that are into a plotless action show that keeps getting less and less believable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR

Thing is they didn't need a god to require the Realm of Torment, just a powerful demon lord that we need to kill, forcing us to go into their realm because it won't come out.

If you are into going to such places, that would have worked fine. However my point still remains that things are getting excessive and part of me wants to argue that needing to go there counts as excessive.

Omniclasm · Jun 27, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 up and 2 down

Quoted for truth!

But anet had to make shiro be dumb and become mortal because other wise we wouldn't have been able to beat factions.

That would have been great in the meeting eh?

A:Well guys, the game is coming along great! However, I have been thinking, how are the players going to kill an immortal spirit?

B:I KNOW! We can make him become mortal by killing an old bald guy!

A:Fantastic idea. Why would he want to become mortal though?

B:Well, I don't know, but who says we have to explain? Muhahaha

Everyone:Muhahaha

OI-812 · Jun 27, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

I never really understood that either, why become mortal again so that you can be killed? Seemed like he was doing a pretty good job of wrecking havoc among Cantha without being mortal.

Pride. Shiro was written as a prideful idiot, a bombastic fool. He wanted to show Cantha that he had balls the size of Glint's eggs, and he succeeded... in getting kicked in the balls, repeatedly, by the player characters.

arcanemacabre · Jun 27, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

That would have been great in the meeting eh?

A:Well guys, the game is coming along great! However, I have been thinking, how are the players going to kill an immortal spirit?

B:I KNOW! We can make him become mortal by killing an old bald guy!

A:Fantastic idea. Why would he want to become mortal though?

B:Well, I don't know, but who says we have to explain? Muhahaha

Everyone:Muhahaha

as some old guy pops in with: "Smoke!"

Omega X · Jun 27, 2007, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I guess my point is that as an RPGer, I'm getting sick of all the stories where you have to save the world. Whatever happened to saving the kingdom from an evil witch, or the princess from a dragon, or bring order to a lawless kingdom, or even try to bring peace to two houses that have fueded for generations (what Factions could have done but failed miserably at). Even something as simple as saving a group of villagers from the bandits(monsters) that have been terrorizing them (7 samurai/kung fu hustle) would be a playable game as well.

What do you all think about games seemingly needing to introduce more and more outlandish scenerios? I really hope that in GW2, things are a little more simple. To be perfectly honest, I think game makers are trying to create exaggerated scenerios in part to one up each other and in part because they are overlooking the fact that you can have good games without needing to save the entire world. And it's begining to bore me.

Saving the kingdom is what quests are for. To save the world you need an epic adventure. RPGs normally have ALWAYS been about stopping some unforeseen or ultra powerful evil from ruling the world. There aren't many RPG stories that deviate from this. SciFi games take it even further by saving the galaxy or set of galaxies.

Though being bored by this means that your tastes are probably on the verge of changing and a nonRPG game with a simple story or no story at all might do you some good.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 27, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Thing is they didn't need a god to require the Realm of Torment, just a powerful demon lord that we need to kill, forcing us to go into their realm because it won't come out.

But then they couldn´t turn the most useless, stupid, pathetic, disgusting person into something "better".

O my god, how I hate the nightfall story!!!!!!

I have to agree with the thread starter. This escalation gets boring really fast. But GW:EN will be the same right?

Longasc · Jun 27, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Unfortunately GW:EN seems already to be the "Ragnarok" of GW... I would have had some nice ideas.

An army of Black Moas is terrorizing Istan. After a while you discover that Cynn and your bastard son are plotting sinister schemes to badmouth the Sunspears.

This is because you betrayed her with Tahlkora and Melonni. Koss also wants to have a word with you. Elona is on the brink of civil war. You will have to re-unite Reverend Mhenlo and Cynn. This is done through a series of Minigames. The right sequence of answers is: 1,3,3,7.

Your son, realizing that he lost his mother to Mhenlo the manRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO and his father having a personal dungeon he calls rather immodest "The Hall of Monuments", decides to throw himself from the Cliffs of Dohjok.

Saddened and grief-stricken you return to the Maguuma Jungle to become a farmer, where you find a new love in Snow White and live together with her and the 7 Asuras.

After loot-scaling and several balance nerfs, your family falls into poverty. You ask your old friends for help, but they are all dead or have their own problems. Aidan has become and outlaw calling himself "Da Hood" and is on a rampage in the Charr Homelands. Devona replaced Joacim Cans as the lead singer of Hammerfall, having a blood feud with Tarja Turunen of Nightwish. Eve became the wife of Palawa Joko, who made, together with Bonesmith Rokel, a fortune with Juicy Heket Legs, driving McDonalds and Burger King out of business. Talon Silverwing became the most prominent victim of bird flu several years ago.

Because of the evil jokes the 7 Asura played on him, yours and Snow White's son bears an ill hatred towards all midgets and dwarves. With the words "This is stupid, ffs!!1!!1!" he turns toward the northern wastes and turns into the Great Destroyer, zealous to destroy the world before it gets nerfed to hell even more.

As you can see, personal conflicts bear enough conflict potential. If you have a decent writer, it needs no gods and demigods to ruin a story.

Omniclasm · Jun 27, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Unfortunately GW:EN seems already to be the "Ragnarok" of GW... I would have had some nice ideas.

An army of Black Moas is terrorizing Istan. After a while you discover that Cynn and your bastard son are plotting sinister schemes to badmouth the Sunspears.

This is because you betrayed her with Tahlkora and Melonni. Koss also wants to have a word with you. Elona is on the brink of civil war. You will have to re-unite Reverend Mhenlo and Cynn. This is done through a series of Minigames. The right sequence of answers is: 1,3,3,7.

Your son, realizing that he lost his mother to Mhenlo the manRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO and his father having a personal dungeon he calls rather immodest "The Hall of Monuments", decides to throw himself from the Cliffs of Dohjok.

Saddened and grief-stricken you return to the Maguuma Jungle to become a farmer, where you find a new love in Snow White and live together with her and the 7 Asuras.

After loot-scaling and several balance nerfs, your family falls into poverty. You ask your old friends for help, but they are all dead or have their own problems. Aidan has become and outlaw calling himself "Da Hood" and is on a rampage in the Charr Homelands. Devona replaced Joacim Cans as the lead singer of Hammerfall, having a blood feud with Tarja Turunen of Nightwish. Eve became the wife of Palawa Joko, who made, together with Bonesmith Rokel, a fortune with Juicy Heket Legs, driving McDonalds and Burger King out of business. Talon Silverwing became the most prominent victim of bird flu several years ago.

Because of the evil jokes the 7 Asura played on him, yours and Snow White's son bears an ill hatred towards all midgets and dwarves. With the words "This is stupid, ffs!!1!!1!" he turns toward the northern wastes and turns into the Great Destroyer, zealous to destroy the world before it gets nerfed to hell even more.

As you can see, personal conflicts bear enough conflict potential. If you have a decent writer, it needs no gods and demigods to ruin a story.

Sounds like....Guild Wars: Lifetime.

And for everyone not in the U.S. Lifetime is a channel for chick flicks when he cheats on her and then he takes the baby and has an affair with her brother.

Operative 14 · Jun 27, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Omniclasm, Longasc; thank you for some of the best posts I have read on this forum.

Yeah, I have to agree with the OP, it does seem a bit odd that we have to constantly save the entire world. First an Evil Lich, then a Demi God, then a Fallen God. Personally, it doesn't give me much faith in the real gods or their power, who have shown themselves to be quite lazy might I add.

I personally kind of liked the storyline portion of Nightfall when you just had to fight the Korunans and try to convince the Vabbians to join your side. It was plausibly difficult. I was kind of disappointed with how easy it was to defeat the Margonites and other divinely made forces. Not disappointed with how hard they were, I found them annoyingly difficult at times. But as far as actual storyline and lore, it seems like a group of humans should have easily been killed by the servants of a god. And not any effort worth mentioning for a god, fallen or not, to defeat some pesky humans and possibly their pet centuar. It seems like the more chapters there are, the more diluted the difficulty of evil becomes. Just after Prophicies, I would have cringed at the thought of facing a god like Abbadon, becuase.. well.. he's a god. And being a god, that carries a certain level of expectancy of power; I.E. moving mountains, changing the weather, making a perfect soufflé the first time around, etc. Now I'm plotting to overthrow Dwayna

.

Phaern Majes · Jun 27, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Have you never did any of the quests? There are plenty of quests in the game that are smaller things such as saving a village, or rescuing a person etc. I mean you can't really stretch those smaller plots across 25 missions without it getting really boring. I'd rather save the world several times, than rescue 25 villages over and over. Or save 25 different princesses...etc.

NinjaKai · Jun 27, 2007, 08:01 AM // 08:01

As far as Shiro is concerned. He wanted to die. Think Zasalamel from SC3 except less interesting, asian, no scythe and a hair cut fitting of a hobo.

On topic: Okay saved the world 3 times. Now what?